Matthew Mak 0:05

You ever notice the people doing the most aren't asking for advice? This is built without permission. I'm Matthew Mack. Before I ever drew a blueprint or signed a business deal, I was folding suits, hauling snow, and washing glasses until 2 a.m. Then came architecture, tow trucks, and a built business from the ground up with my partner. No blueprint, no safety net, no approval. Just real stories, hard pivots, and what it actually takes to build something from nothing. Let's get to work. John, thank you for joining me on Built Without Permission. Thank you for having your time shared with me. Welcome. Absolutely, Matt. It was great for you to have me on. Thank you. Awesome. And uh yeah, let's get to the nitty-gritty because I'm excited to get to know you. All right, John. So tell us, what's the lie that you told yourself the longest before you finally started?

John Reay 1:07

I think the biggest one is that starting my own business is gonna be my ultimate path to freedom. Okay. And what I mean by that is that I think a lot of us they get in we get into business for ourselves and we start businesses with the idea of I can do it better, I can do it faster, or and I'm gonna have more time and more freedom. Yeah. And what I see time and again, no matter what, and I I've been through four different industries now. And what I've seen every time is the owner gets more in the middle of everything and all the working components of it, and they have their hands in everything and they end up building themselves another jail, another jail cell.

Matthew Mak 1:55

Yeah. So pretty much building yourself to be that again, that bottleneck. Yeah, correct. Right? Yeah, and um, if you can just share with us what were those different um takes of those industries, those four different uh sectors that you have experience through.

John Reay 2:10

Yeah, they're pretty diverse. They're pretty diverse. Uh it started with software of all things back in '97. I'm in my mom's basement in Illinois, not Chicago, in Illinois. Okay. Uh, and I I'm working with had a mutual communication with a guy from the Corps of Engineers Research Lab, U.S. Army, Searle. Okay. They they had a software program, demonstration software they needed to be able to actually get the the program done that they wanted. Yeah. And I did the demo software for them on my own, in the evenings, on the weekends, and uh gave it to them, said here, you know, what do you guys think? And they were like, We love it. How much for it? I'm like, I didn't think about that. I don't know how much, uh, 500 bucks. I said, you know, I'm a kid at that point. 500 bucks seemed like a lot. So I was like, okay, 500 bucks, no problem. Okay, cool. Who do we make the checkout to? Uh me? No, no, we need a business name.

Matthew Mak 3:10

Yeah.

John Reay 3:11

No idea. So started there, learned to learn the ropes from that.

Matthew Mak 3:15

Yes.

John Reay 3:17

And then ended up going into the video editing side of things. Okay. Video editing, software, and hardware, because at that point you couldn't just use an app, you actually had to use the hardware and the everything to get it all done. Oh. And built a system for that. One of my clients at the time ended up selling his business down in Florida here. Yeah. And the owner, the new owner, hired me as a basically a an unwritten partner or undisclosed partner to come down and go through and do everything he paid my way down and gave me a you know a nice little check to get it done. Yep. And two years later, he sells it for about 20x the money. Oh, wow. I had no stakes in it though.

Matthew Mak 4:03

Yeah. Yeah.

John Reay 4:05

So I got a little thank you check, and six months later, after thinking I was rich, I realized I wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So went to that and realized that I didn't own anything at that point. So I'm like, I need to own the business. Yeah. Need to own the business. So I said, okay, fine. Real estate. It's one of the key things here in Florida. We did real estate and realized that now I'm the only one because I got the license. And so now I go through and I I again build the same thing again. I'm building the systems, building everything up, and now I realize I'm it. I'm it. No leverage of time, nothing. In the same time frame, we also to keep the lights lit, because that was through the dip in the market. Yep. I picked up uh low voltage and electrical, learned fire alarm systems, and then learned fire sprinkler systems. So I pulled the wire, went and ran the pipe, cut the threads, learned to do all that, and then learned to run service, and then run the shops, and then you know, ended up working for a major corporation nationally. And uh then, you know, realized that okay, I still don't have the leverage. So next time, next time out is the thing I want to do. So I I said, okay, fine. I'm working with trades now, I understand their problems internally. I understand that a lot of them have a really hard time relating to the customer in the way they want to be related to. Yeah. So I said, fine, let's go with this AI. Uh this is uh, you know, it's coming back to my computer technology stuff. So let's let's use AI, let's create the complex thing or take the complex thing, make it simple for the customer to understand. Yeah. And here we are. So that's nice. That's about as quickly as I can go through it without really skipping over the stuff.

Matthew Mak 6:02

So now how long is it what you're doing currently? How long have you been doing your own thing on this now?

John Reay 6:08

That has been since 22. 22 is when we got started on that. Yeah. And it has been a really an interesting experience because a lot of people they hear AI and they think it's an app or a little free chat, and that's it.

Matthew Mak 6:25

Yeah, they don't see the real capabilities of what it can really do. And it's still that way till now, right? Which is like there's more people that are understanding it, but still it's not really making a huge breakthrough yet, which is I find very shocking, right? Because I know for like yourself, even myself, it's like we're so into it and you're getting like so involved, and you're like, Oh, look at what it can do here, look at what you can do there, right? And it's just it's unbelievable, right? It's almost like you're gonna be eventually um when owners are able to figure it out themselves, uh, that haven't yet, it's gonna eventually bleed away. I feel programmers, right? Like in the future, because then you won't need that programmer because now you have the support of the AI being your programmer, you just gotta talk to it, and it just supports the kinks, right?

John Reay 7:12

English is now the language, or whatever language you communicate in is now the language.

Matthew Mak 7:17

Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's cool because it's like now from where you came and all those experiences that you went through, it's like those hard lessons that you never hear about it unless you talk about it, right? And it's just, but that built you who you are today, right? Right, and it's the hard lessons, right? Oh man, like even that feeling that like I could feel it the way you said it. It's like uh you're a silent partner, no stake in it, and you're like excited like they sold it, like wait, uh my name's not anywhere, you know.

John Reay 7:50

Six months later, I was literally in a 1995 Dodge Neon, living in that car for a while.

Matthew Mak 7:58

Yeah, that was oh my gosh, yeah. No, for sure. But then you're you're you're you're an executor, you're doer, right? Like you're not gonna let things like that as hard as it is in the moment and in the time to slow you down from what you're becoming, exactly, right? Which is where you are now, and who knows what you're gonna be building next, right? Because like it's it's it's cool, awesome. And now uh what's something uh you had learned or had to sorry, relearned from scratch, even though you thought you already knew it. So I guess maybe this could be something to towards like you're going back now to software, right?

John Reay 8:34

Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I think about what you just said about languages and programming and things like that, uh, we'll be going above uh along the wayside. And I think that's true. What I think is that most of the people that are in those types of areas, if they would pull back to first principles, if they would look at the steps, the logic of it, and framing it out, that they would learn a lot of the process and be able to apply that in the new tools of today. You know, they're simpler to work with, but you still have to be able to pull that out. And I think that's really where my side of it came from in the fact that I had to go back from pulling back from code books and standards and requirements for the trades, yeah, and now look at the actual principles of looking at what's the task that we're trying to do. Base uh basically back it down into individual steps of you put this much effort in or you get this input from this and you get output from that. And you then have to just sequence it and make it all work. Yeah. And that's what I had to reteach myself again.

Matthew Mak 9:54

Yeah, and like now, like for me, that I totally understand that because now, like, let's say for myself, um, I I started building software for my business, yeah, and I got so into it, and now it's like I can see where I'm I'm speaking the language of the AI, right? And you're totally right when it comes to um working backwards on what's the output, what do you want it to do? You got to kind of work backwards to see how to get it to do what you want it to do, and how if you do one thing, how does it affect everything else around it, right? And and putting proper rules in place, and you know, because like definitely learn very quickly that it doesn't take sarcasm. No, no, right? Sarcasm does not exist in that world, and I learned that very quickly. It's very funny, but it's yeah, you learn that very fast.

John Reay 10:48

It's getting better, but it's not got the human experience that we all have.

Matthew Mak 10:53

Yeah, yeah. So it's got it, it's kind of funny when you have times where you just kind of want to swear at it or you know whatnot, but it'll just take it to a whole literal level level, you know.

John Reay 11:02

You know what? Do it. To be honest with you, swear at the thing, it will actually understand. Oh, I did something wrong. Wrong, yes, yeah.

Matthew Mak 11:11

But the response is very uh formal, is what I'm trying to say, right? It's it's yeah, it's really funny. It is, it's so interesting. Yeah, but uh totally relatable. Now, what's a skill nobody taught you that turned out to matter more than anything you learned from school or training?

John Reay 11:31

Hmm. The biggest one I think I would have to say was programming. The programming languages I was never formally taught programming of any kind. Yeah. I had access to my dad when he when he was bringing us up, he had access to at the time it was called NRI. It was for low voltage electrical things. Uh, he had access to that. I I basically basically learned low voltage electrical, and then I also at that point he used it to build the first bits of an actual computer at our house. This was like in the mid 80s, yeah. And then one day he buys this TRS 80. It's a tandy computer, huge honking thing compared to what we see today. Yeah. And I had no idea what it was for, no clue. But I I sat down and I was like, I want to learn, I want to figure this out. He threw me the book and said, Here, go figure out. It's it's called basic, go figure it out. Yeah. And that was the the step that started it all, and just it literally was self-taught when it came to computers. I just learned it, I I can't I can't learn to fix things if I don't learn or how if I don't break them. Yeah, exactly, right? Yeah. So it's like making me think about DOS.

Matthew Mak 12:58

Right. That's exactly right. And I still remember DOS and like just it's just you're taught you're looking into at a black screen and then you're just telling it the commands to get it to do what you want to do. And yeah, it was very, very impressive, right?

John Reay 13:12

Yeah, and it's and that, but that's where it all started from. And that I think that it wasn't so much the language itself, it was the fact that oh as the phrase goes, you you know, f around and find out. Yeah, and that really is it is where that all thing that whole thing got started from, is because you did you had to break it and and then learn to fix it yourself.

Matthew Mak 13:36

Yeah, probably reverse engineering, but in a breaking manner, yeah. And you know, there's that actually the the story of Pirate uh Silicon Valley about Steve Jobs and um Bill Gates, and the so basically the movie though, uh and what I love about it, how it just uh talks about when the idea that Bill Gates had about uh DOS and he sold the idea to IBM before he actually created it, and he just had it in his mind how long it was actually gonna take him to build it. Like he knew he could do it with the right tools, right? And it it was just so impressive. Like that story just for me sits in my mind always just said how amazing that is that he was able to sell something that wasn't even created yet, right? It was just an idea.

John Reay 14:27

Yeah, right.

Matthew Mak 14:29

And it hits you so hard if you if those that have heard it, it's like it's so impressive. Right? It's no different than um I can't remember his name, uh, but the gentleman that um he started that airline, and um it's a big airline now. He didn't have the money for it, but he kept calling, calling just to um see what kind of old planes um that uh one of these airlines was uh selling, and he finally got through and he sold the tickets in advance, one year in advance of the flight. And didn't even have the plane, and didn't even have the plane yet. But when he recouped that or when he got that money for the tickets in that year advance, he had the money for the plane, for the fuel, and just kept running with it. Like it's it just takes that one idea.

John Reay 15:13

Yeah, and the guts to do it because so many of us. I feel like so many of us, if we don't have the entire path lit, we don't take a step.

Matthew Mak 15:25

Yeah, but now it's just breaking through that, right? Yeah, it's it's building without permission, right? That's it. Just taking that next leap. Uh so tell us what's a decision you made that looked reckless from the outside, but made total sense to you.

John Reay 15:44

Would have been moving from my home state of Illinois all the way down to Florida, having had two interviews on the phone with a guy I'd never met, having all my stuff boxed up into a moving van that came a week before I left, and then driving down to who knows what to start working over uh at Omega Multimedia with them on building those turnkey video editing systems. Wow. That's awesome.

Matthew Mak 16:18

Kind of like now it's like very similar story to Dan, right? How he was talking about the car and then plugging in all that stuff, and then had to go keep uh keep the the lights on in the car to keep his thing running, his programming.

John Reay 16:30

Yeah, you figure it out and you just you make it work. I mean, it turns out we had we had systems, one audio editing system that ended up going across to the West Coast to a company called Skywalker Sound. Okay. Owned by obviously Lucasfilm. Yep. And so we did systems for that, and then we also had Kennedy Space Center, one of their video editing systems, uh, we helped to do for them at that point also. So it was it was one of those things where you started to kind of realize these are actually some systems going in to do some real work. This is pretty cool.

Matthew Mak 17:06

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. It's like like um you and and to know that you had that involvement and part of that, it's it's you know, not everyone's gonna know, but those that do, it's still even to yourself. To yourself is me actually the biggest thing that I find. Like you that's your achievement, right? Which is exactly you get that dad moment of you drive by somebody I built that. I did that. I did that. That's awesome. That's awesome. Uh now what's the next thing that you're scared to start?

John Reay 17:45

I love that though. That's that really kind of helps put me on my heels and say, okay, what what are we really gonna be doing? There is there's a lot of things that I've learned and and started developing in in the AI space. And what I've learned so far is is that you don't know everything past a certain point. Yeah. And so pushing myself into doing more with clients and accepting more more specialized work with clients has been really where I'm getting pushed right now. Yeah. Because I've I feel like I know what I know and I know I can deliver certain things, and then there's that area where okay, I know what you're asking me. Case in point, I had one guy talking to me today about an enterprise level thing for the medical industry. And you know, I'm aware of the compliance rules and things like that, but also the fact that now the large language model, the LLM, it has to stay resident locally, it cannot go across the open internet. Wow. So now it's like, okay, how do you incorporate that into their process? Build yourself an office there.

unknown 19:14

Right. Right.

Matthew Mak 19:15

That's it. Get me my own office in your facility, I can make it happen. Yeah, rare. There's an idea, right?

John Reay 19:21

It's it's not a bad one. It's but it's funny because it pushes us into that area of discomfort. And you know, I I look at it and I'm like, okay, I know I can I can figure this out, but do I know everything I need to know right now? No.

Matthew Mak 19:36

Yeah. But that's actually a pretty good idea, though. That's a start, John. Like you could like literally say, you know what, this is what I can do for you, this is the time frame, the duration. I just need my own space in your facility, and you're just going from place to place, you know? And then slowly you train whoever it is, and then they can just act upon it as you, and then they do that. Exactly. Well, it's the next stones, right?

John Reay 19:58

Yeah, you'll see what it is. You build the program and then you build the people to learn to run the program basically for instance.

Matthew Mak 20:05

Yeah, that's cool. All right, now we're gonna throw this one at you. Build without permission, what does it mean to you?

John Reay 20:14

To build without permission means that nobody has nobody's actually asked me to do something of value for them. Yeah. It's something where I took it upon myself to take everything, all the resources and knowledge I have, and look at the problem at hand, yeah, and offer a solution. Whether that person is actually directly asking me or if I'm going to the open market with a solution to a problem.

Speaker 3 20:44

Yeah.

John Reay 20:44

And I think a lot of a lot of people that I talk to, they wait until they're directly employed by somebody for it. They they go through the standard procedures. And that's what I like about the built without permission idea is because it really doesn't it doesn't adhere to that common that common trajectory most people use. Yeah.

Matthew Mak 21:06

No, and absolutely, and I agree with you on that. And and I feel that like as uh most of us as entrepreneurs that we're connecting with, networking with, and um it it resonates a lot with us because it's it defines us. Yeah right, it's it's it's what gets us to where we are because we're not listening to anyone but ourselves, right? We'll take the advice and through one ear out the other, right? And take the one keynote, maybe that might help. Yeah, they might have said something that works, but yeah, yeah, but it it's in the end that you're doing what what you want to do, right? Yes. But there was actually a really cool um uh chat I had with uh one of our, let's call it uh colleagues, uh Michael, Michael Mock, and um I asked him that question, and it was really cool. He he he tweaked my mind a little bit on it, where because I did say about specifically entrepreneurs. And how it resonates with us. But he said, Matt, you know what? Built built without permission could still be for someone that is employed by someone because that is what they want to do. They don't want to be a leader, but they're happy in what they're doing in the position that they want. So they're still built without permission in that position because that's what they're happy in doing. And I'm like, you know what? Like, you're you're absolutely right on that too. Right. So it's all about this is what's cool. It's like it's all about the um perspective, the view, and how you interpret it, right? And each person hearing the exact same words but receiving it differently. Right. That's I love that. We're so powerful, eh? I think that technically all of us are some sort of superheroes, superhuman beings. You know, we have this amazing energy source that it just it's really hard to explain, right? But I fully believe it. We live in the matrix.

John Reay 22:54

Yeah. Well, you stop and think about it. Anything I can't remember what book this was from. Um I do. It actually was from the uh millionaire mindset. Okay. And his his main philosophy behind that section of the book was that anything that you have ever seen or experienced in real life from someone anywhere all started as a thought in between their two ears. Yes. And that thought it if they would have just said, no, that's impossible or it doesn't exist right now, and just discounted it, it would have never come to be. So anything and everything that we've ever invented in this world, somebody had a thought. Of course.

Matthew Mak 23:43

Yeah, no, that's cool. Now, John, tell us uh where can we find you? What's the best place? IG, you got your web page.

John Reay 23:53

Tell us. So best place to to find me is on Instagram at John RayOfficial. And you know, that's so that's really the best way. That's there's lots of links and stuff from there, but that is typically the best way. Yeah. And um, you know, I don't one of the things also, I'm gonna put this in if you don't mind, uh, that I'd like to do for your audience is uh send me the uh a message, DM me the word permission, yeah. And or permission pod, either one, that's fine. And what I'll do is I'll have it send over automatically a um a quick guide that we do that basically takes the stennote book that you've got sitting in your truck, yep, or you know, right next to you if you're listening to the podcast, take all the little notes and scratches on the on there of everything that's going on, take one quick photo of it, you run it into either you know what whatever AI system you're using, and it'll go through and it'll give you a complete rundown of everything that needs to be happening there for you. That's awesome.

Matthew Mak 25:03

Hit John up, send him all those DMs, flood his DMs. No, that's great. That's great. John, really thank you for for sharing your time and joining me here on Built Without Permission. And I'm definitely looking forward that we can connect again on here. Absolutely.

John Reay 25:19

It's been a pleasure.

Matthew Mak 25:20

Thanks again. Well, you have yourself a great day. Cheers, take care, bye. If you're waiting for permission, you're already behind. The life you're building starts with the decisions you make today. So stop thinking and start moving. Subscribe, share this with someone still thinking about it, and start building something of your own. No blueprint, no approval, no excuses. I'm Matthew Mack. This is built without permission.