Foreign. You ever notice the people doing the most aren't asking for advice? This is Built Without Permission. I'm Matthew Mac. Before I ever drew a blueprint or signed a business deal, I was folding suits, hauling snow and washing glasses until 2am Then came architecture, tow trucks, and a built business from the ground up with my partner. No blueprint, no safety net, no approval. Just real stories, hard pivots, and what it actually takes to build something from nothing. Let's get to work. All right, so we got Nathan here joining us on Built Without Permission. Nathan, tell us about yourself a little bit, sir. My name is Nathan and I'm the owner of Nonpro Roofing and Metal Services. I've been in business now for a couple years and everything is going fantastic. Awesome. And tell us what is the moment that you realized that you didn't need permission to start what you're doing today? When my wife gave me permission, When I got permission, heard and not need permission, essentially I was project manager for a larger roofing company and I was overworked, worked, and slightly underpaid and I decided to complain every day. I took the work home with me and my wife told me, she goes, you know, you're, you're stupid for not starting your own thing. You're, you're, you know everything about roofing and you're making other people rich. I think it's time you try something new. So that was the moment that really set it for me is, you know, she, she supported me and yeah, that's when the permission went out the window. Awesome. Awesome. Well, as you know, that's a great support that we all have is, is our, our for those that do have is. That's a huge support in getting us to doing what we're doing today for what we are accomplishing. Right. And, and then that's awesome. Like, so now with the roofing and all, prior to, did you have other experiences prior to where you were before or was it always just roofing? No, I had lots of other experiences. I, I worked a lot of construction in my life. Roofing's kind of been the main thing. I started roofing when I was 16, but I also worked in underground mining for infrastructure. I did concrete on high rise buildings. So pretty much anything to do with my hands, I had experience with. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So you got a lot of trades under your belt, which is, which is good, right? I think the greatest thing about, like, the more that you kind of know, but not, you know, more that you learn, the less people can also bullshit. You Know exactly. Right? Yeah. So it's always good to have more under your belt. Cool. And then, and with roofing and all, I hate heights. I'll be honest with you. That's my personal experience. So good on you that you're able to be up there, up that high. So that's not something that. It's my everyday cup of tea. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny, when I was at my first roofing job, I was 16 and I was making $8 an hour. And at 16, I guess it was okay. But I remember one of the first jobs I was on, I was crawling on the roof. I wasn't used to heights, right. And my foreman just looked at me and said, kid, if you can't walk on the roof, you're no good to me. If you can't do it, get out of here. Wow. So I, I had, I had, I had the man up that day. I had to become a man and just get comfortable with the heights. Yeah. And then now like with the roofing and all, like, what are some things that let's say out there, it's not really educated enough for let's say a homeowner to really know what's the processes with, with roofing, like in terms of the layers and all. Right. Like I've seen a lot of things where guys are like hiring these, you know, knocking the door guys to see, yeah, we'll do your roofing for you or fix it or whatever the case is. And they're just stapling right on the plywood. Like what are the different layers that's, you know, of membranes that are needed for that process. Right. That you could share with, with everyone. Yeah. So essentially when you get roof quotes, I mean, no two roofers are the same, just like no two mechanics are the same. Just like anyone you know, there's different levels. So on an education base, the biggest thing is obviously the shingles have to be removed. Right. You don't want to go over top of shingles. The underlayment process, there is a ice and water self adhesive membrane that goes at the bottom three feet of the perimeter of your roof. And also in your valleys, up chimneys, up walls. And this is to keep ice and water from entering your home. You also need a drip edge which is installed before the ice and water. And then you need synthetic paper to cover the rest of your roof. The synthetic paper acts as a water barrier, but it also keeps the roof from sweating. Like it keeps a less the roof still. Breathe, breathe. So condensate isn't put underneath the shingles. Another thing is venting. Venting is huge. Something that gets skipped a lot with roofers because they don't, they just don't think about it. Right. If your soffit intakes aren't working and you don't have enough vents on top of your roof, you're going to have issues with ice damming, you're going to have issues with condensation, and that breeds mold. So ventilation is another big thing. So if I were to say to you, if you're going to get a roof coat, you're going to get multiple different roof quotes. Educate yourself before you get the roof quotes and really go through each line item on the scope of work and compare. Because not every roofer is offering the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I seen it where guys would get, you know, they go for obviously the cheapest roof quote and ends up. What's happening is guys are either just, you know, stapling, like I said, on, on the plywood, there's no membrane underneath, no nothing. It's just removing the old stuff and just putting on new, new ash shingles right on top of plywood. There's no protection from weathering and rain and all that stuff. Right. And you're still dropping, still dropping a couple of grand and now. Yeah. And like, why do you want to spend, you know, you save two grand now, you spend ten grand later because you just, you screwed yourself. You're gonna have a job that's not gonna last. Right now, currently in Toronto, there's a huge scam going around where people doing work in the area, we notice something on your roof. We're giving a free inspection and they go on your roof and then they say, oh, you got termites, your roof's about to collapse, we gotta fix this. It's gonna be 15 grand. And it's usually targeted toward older individuals that these scammers targeting. And what they're doing is now that they start ripping off your roof and you're locked in, you can't get away, then they're coming down with another problem. Oh, this is bad. And the joists are all rotted and we, we need another 30 grand. Next thing you know, the client's in at a hundred thousand dollars and all these guys are doing is just being your roof off. Yeah. To give you an example, I dealt with one. And the lady gave him a check for a hundred thousand dollars. They ripped her roof off and left. So at night it rained. It destroyed the inside of her home. The bank, thankfully, was able to Retrieve her money from wherever they cashed the check. So she didn't lose the hundred thousand, but she had to get a new roof. And her roof wasn't even bad in the first place. Yeah. The very next day, we had a crew there. We. We fixed her roof up, got her all water tight. She's very grateful. I've actually been to her house now three times for other projects. He just loves us. Right. But, yeah, this is, this is what's going on in Toronto right now, and I'm sure other parts of the world too. Yeah, that's. That's crazy. And that's stuff you don't hear every day. Right. Like the, the. The news doesn't share those kind of details, just that there's scams only going around, but not the fine details of that. Like, I, I have a lot of other experiences very similar to that in terms of machines, but that's another story. We gotta do a podcast. I think so. Yeah. So, Nathan, tell me, like, in terms of sacrifices, what are, like, sacrifices that you have made that most people would never even talk about in terms of being, let's say, an entrepreneur? Honestly, the. I think the biggest sacrifice that I made was getting out of my comfort zone. I don't know if that answers the question correctly, but it is very uncomfortable when you don't know when your next paycheck is coming. Yeah. So that was a big sacrifice for me because I had a good salary, you know, I was comfortable. I had, you know, all my bills were paid. So that was a big sacrifice for me. Another sacrifice, I guess, even bigger sacrifice is time. Because, you know, as an entrepreneur, when you're the boss, when you own the company, there's. You don't shut your phone off, it's 24, seven problems come up. You have to have your early mornings, your late nights. You sacrifice time with your family, you sacrifice time with your friends. And also you sacrifice your life like you only get one day to live each day. That's the only sacrifice, your time. And it's hard, but if you want to give to the future generations of your kids, someone's got to do it. Someone's got to make the sacrifice. Absolutely. And now do you have kids? I do. I have two kids. You have two kids. Okay, well, God bless. I got three. House. Full house, buddy. Yeah. And I would say in. To relate to that. Absolutely. Right. Is. Is our time, that sacrifice for those that are around us, our kids, our wives, and it's finding that, that what, you know, lots of people would say work life, Balance, which doesn't exist. Right. And the phone doesn't stop 24 7. And yeah, like, you just gotta. You gotta jump on the fires as soon as you can. Right? Because at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's you, your name, your. Everything that you built right on the line. Right. And everything heavily falls under customer service. I think, like trades and all that we do. Customer service is what gets us to where we are. Right. Like this, this is, this is just our industry. Right. And. Exactly. It's very high demanding. Yeah. And like I, for example, yesterday we finished a job, and at the end of the day, the client said to me, he goes, you know, he goes, you're really good at this. You're really good at what you do. Your customer service is impeccable. The reason why I gave you the job, he said, I have lots. I had lots of quotes. He's like, the reason why you got the job is because you're the only one to go in my attic. You're the only one to be detailed with your report. You're the only one to walk me through the process of what's going on. And he said, all the other quotes I got, some guy didn't even show up. He did it from a satellite, just sent him a price online. Another guy came and just went on the roof, took a couple pictures, left. He's like, none of them even, like, talked to me about the products that I use. None of them wanted to go in the attic and check for venting or mold or whatever. Right. So customer service is what is going to get you the job. And then you have to, you have to execute, Right? Good job. Yeah. And you, you just, you just showed clarity as well on what it is that you're offering, Right? And yeah, that's where it's, it's. It's tough when, when you got the other guys, like you're saying, if they're just sending something over, over to the phone through satellite images and all, like, how do you trust that anyone can do that? You know what I mean? Anyone could do that. Right? And that's the thing where I find that when, when also you're able to show your face, like, face to face with people. That's already the trust factor there, right? Like, you're able to show who you are, what you represent, and while you're there, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's. It's huge, man. Like, people take it for granted. I don't know if they get too busy or just don't care, but it does give a lot of work. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like, I remember when. So I've been living in my place right now for seven years now. And it was during the bit of the COVID time and it was so hard to get just an electrician to just install pot lights into my home. And I kid you not, at that time, I wasn't doing what I'm doing. I was working in architecture and I had to take off a day's work just so I could be there for the appointment that was made for the guy to come do the pot lights. And the guy didn't show up. And I'm like, that just cost me a day of work. Like, I lost money. Like, plus, plus, plus. Right. Like what the heck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, sorry, go on. No, sorry, I was just. I didn't mean to cut in. It just goes to show, like, how do these people stay in business? Well, absolutely. Right. Like you, that. That's clearly their bellies are too full. They don't need business. Right. Yeah. Well, it only lasts for so long. It only lasts for so long. Eventually people will stop using it, right? Oh, 100%. 100%. And now let's say for the person, average person that's working the 9 to 5 and they have that, you know, plan and jump that they want to do something. Like, what is it that you could give that, that advice that for them to. To take that leap of faith to. To get into something? Like, do they need a lot of money? What is it they need to do? Start from scratch. Honestly, it's not even about the money aspect. The money will come. For me, it's just do it. Don't think, just do it, you know, because you are literally the only reason why you're not successful. Yeah. Because most people quit before they even try. So my biggest advice to that is to just don't overthink it. If you have a plan in place, time to execute. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And. And that's pretty much what I think all of us live by. Right. It's just do it. Execute. Yeah. If you make. If it's a mistake, fix the problem, keep moving on. Just don't make the same mistake and keep on going. Right? Yeah, yeah. Like every success story. Every success story, there's always failure. Oh, of course, of course. And that's what I love about this one. I heard where it says that those that are, let's say, more successful than us right now, that we see there they are where they are because they failed more than we have. And that's it. That's. That's really what it is, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I heard a good quote the other day and it was, you know, I was sitting in a room of business people and I'm always thinking that I'm so much further behind, further behind than these people. And then I realized I'm the youngest in the room. Yeah. So are you really further behind or did you start earlier than they did? It's just the age gap. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's never too late for anyone. Doesn't matter how old you are. You're right. It's an age gap, you know. And what's this other one? There's this other saying, it's about when you're in a room full of people and you're in this and you're the smartest person in that room, you're not in the right place. I like that. You're not in the right place. Yeah. You need to be in the place that you aren't the smartest because that's where you're going to learn to. To. To gain more knowledge. Yes, Yes, I like that a lot. Because, you know, you got to surround yourself with the smartest people. Yes, correct. You don't want. Hardest person in that room. I like that. Yeah. And then there's the. Your net worth or your. Sorry, your network is your net worth. Totally true. So that's why, like, you know, all these networking get togethers, events, things that happen throughout the year, it's, it's big because again, it's going by showing face. You get to meet the people face to face, feel how real people are, work together with people, collaborate together with people. And you never know when you're going to need, you know, support from someone you never knew you need support from. Right. Because they might have something of knowledge that you would need, but you didn't know you needed it until you met them. Right. It's really, it's really interesting. Right. And I used to actually think before about coincidence. I don't believe in coincidence anymore. I believe everything's meant to be. So everything that happens in our lives, it's written by God for sure. And it's meant to be in the moment that it's meant to be. It was never coincidence. Right. So that. I'm a really big believer that. Yeah, absolutely, man. And it's the truth. And like some people question that, they'll say, well, what about the bad things that happen? Well, there's good and bad in this World. And we can't explain it. Yeah. It's meant to be. You can't explain it. Yeah. For sure. And now tell me, Nathan, built without permission, what does it mean to you? Built without permission. So this question I'm still trying to wrap my head around. So, built without permission. Like you don't need the permission of others to build on yourself. Like, you have to. You really have to bet on yourself, no matter what the outside noise is saying, because other people will try to bring you to their level, whether they know it or not. Yeah. And they might think that your dreams and your aspirations are crazy out of this world. Right. But unless you try, you're never gonna know. So. Yeah. And. And now those people that you're explaining there, that call you, you know, crazy and whatnot in your. Your plans and your ideas, would you say they close family, friends? Honestly, my family was pretty supportive. Okay. Because I think they all saw, like, my worth and how much I know about roofing and. Yeah, it's not my first boat. I was a subcontractor when I was younger. I was always, you know, doing my own jobs when I was younger. Then I got it out for a bit, then I came back. So it's not like it's something new to me. Yeah. The biggest doubters were colleagues, people that I worked with by previous job. Are you crazy? You're gonna walk away from a job like this? You're gonna start your own thing in a recession? Are you nuts? Like, listen, guys, I'm like, I don't know what to tell you, but I'm just. This is it. I believe I gotta do it. I gotta do it. And every single one of them had something negative to say. They all said I wouldn't make it. And yeah, when. When I become big and successful, I'm gonna put a big sign out in front of their. In front of their shop. I wouldn't go that far. But yeah, it's. It's unfortunate because a lot of those people you thought, like, they kind of had your back. And I feel like in the end of the day, they were kind of rooting for me to fail. Yeah. And that's how people, you know, misery loves company and people don't want to succeed, you know? Absolutely. And that, that, that is just human nature. Right. And we're all going to have all those people around us, no matter what, in our lives. And that's what builds the fire, making you want to be even more successful. Right. That's what builds your. Your strength even more. Right. And it's it's just a drive, you know, Motivation pusher, you know? Yeah, yeah, it really is. Right. And then at the end of the day, so that you're trying to prove them wrong, but, you know, you're. You're trying to be the better person you are from yesterday. Right? That's one and second. Is that you? You. I heard this quote. It says you're not doing. Sorry. If you have no haters, then you're doing something wrong. Yes. And that's a fact. And that's a fact. Right. You know, like, I've really learned to ignore the haters and I've gotten really good at cutting the wrong people out of my life. No explanation, no excuses. Just, if you don't bring me value, then I don't need you in my life. Absolutely. And I really. It's. For me, it's kind of like it's an internal goal. Like, I don't want to succeed because I want to have fancy cars or because I want to, you know, be this rich guy or show people I can do it. I want to succeed because I've wasted so much of my life focusing on the wrong things and I'm doing myself a dishonor by not doing what I know I'm meant to do. And I'm meant to own a roofing company. And we're gonna see where it goes. That's it, man. And you gotta keep on pushing and you're gonna get there. Right. As long as you envision and keep envisioning and believing in what it is that your success is, you'll get there. Right? A big thing. A big thing for me right now is I took on actually this for quite a few people that I connect with almost on a daily basis. So I took on a coaching program with Dan Martell. I don't know if you've heard of Dan Martell, but if you see him on Instagram, he talks a lot about AI and whatnot, but his program is actually based off of how you can better yourself as a person and succeed in. Doesn't matter what business you're in, and you're connecting yourself with a select group of people that you're. You have the access to them, they have that access to you. And you learn how other people's growth builds as well as yours. And his goal is just that you reach those successful goals by just being a better you. It's actually very cool and I thoroughly. I enjoy it. We can talk about further. But yeah, like, for his path and everything, I. I think it's helping for me. And it's. It's really, really cool. Like, one of the books that he has is buy back your time. You should. You should definitely read it. It's. I'm gonna write this down. Yeah, write it down, bro. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what he says, eh? He says if you don't write it down, you're gonna forget it. That's why I write everything down. I write everything down too. Yeah. So buy back your time. Yeah. Fantastic book. Yeah, fantastic book. Great read. It's a. It's a. It's a game changer. Yeah. I am going to read this one. Hopefully they have it on audible because I do a lot of diving and. Yeah, they do. Okay, fantastic. Yeah, they do. All right, I'm gonna do that. Spend lots of hours on the truck every day. That's it, man. That's it. Yeah. For me, I'm more of a reader just because, like, I don't mind audio, but reading, for me, I. Because each person is different. I like to go back and, like, take notes. That's just me, though, right? Audio is like playback, replay back, replay back. But each one, each person digests the information their own way. Right. So it's good. This is why. This is why I'm a roofer. I work with my hands and it's not I can read, but I'm one of those guys. I will be reading and I'll be like, what's for dinner tonight? And then, oh, I have to do this. And then I'm just like, not even paying attention to the words that I'm reading. Yes. Awesome. Awesome, awesome. Well, Nathan, well, I really do appreciate your time and joining me on this. I'm built without your permission. Where is it that we can find you on IG and all? Where the can the people find you? Yep. So we have our Instagram account, Nineporeal Roofing. You can take a look at that. We have all of our projects on there. We also have a website, nonpro roofing.com, if you want to look on that. And all the information will be on there to contact us. We are located in North York and we do all of southern Ontario. I got jobs down in Stratford, jobs down in Niagara Falls, all the way up to Aurora. Just, you know, we will go where we're needed. Awesome, brother. Same here, man. We'll go wherever you're needed. Yes, sir. Well, we'll be doing some business soon. Don't worry. I'm gonna need. Sounds good, Nath. Thanks for your time, brother. We'll talk. Talk soon, man. Absolutely. It was a pleasure, man. Have a great day. We'll talk to you. You too. Thank you. Ciao. Bye. If you're waiting for permission, you're already behind. The life you're building starts with the decisions you make today. So stop thinking and start moving. Subscribe, share this with someone. Still thinking about it. And start building something of your own. No blueprint, no approval, no excuses. I'm Matthew Mac. This is built without permission.