Foreign. You ever notice the people doing the most aren't asking for advice? This is Built Without Permission. I'm Matthew Mac. Before I ever drew a blueprint or signed a business deal, I was folding suits, hauling snow, and washing glasses until 2am Then came architecture, tow trucks, and a built business from the ground up with my partner. No blueprint, no safety net, no approval. Just real stories, hard pivots, and what it actually takes to build something from nothing. Let's get to work. Alicia, welcome to Built Without Permission. And I think that. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm really excited that you have your time taken to share it with me here and answer some awesome questions, you know, and this whole thing that I started, I felt like it just resonates with so many people and just really excited that finally doing it. Yeah, I love that you are. I think it's important to share your message and highlight other people's messages to help more people 100%. So let's start with pretty much the moment that you realized that you don't need to wait for permission to start what it is that you're doing. So let's hear a bit about yourself. Yeah. So I have a funny story, funny background. Got my. My start in international development. So I landed that job when I was really young, like 18. I started taking teams overseas to work in places like Nepal, South Africa, Jordan, Panama. And we'd be gone for three to four months at a time. So I really jumped in, Mike, like into my career with two feet. And I don't know, maybe had way too much responsibility for that age. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So started there, and then that's where I started to see coffee farmers firsthand, really being taken advantage of. And I'd meet these incredible coffee farmers in these different locations that would work so hard to produce this product that we drink every day in every country. And I learn from them about how coffee is processed and picked from a tree and dried and all that stuff and get to know their families. And then I come back to the West. First thing I would do in airport is spend five bucks on a cup of coffee. And that gap started to just, like, wear on me. So I finally moved home to Canada, where I was born and raised to try and do something about it. Started my first company, and it's been 11 years since I did that. And we did some really cool things like direct supply chains. Bought eight of them around the world, three fully female. Started our own micro loan program back in 2019. Helped over 50 farmers through that program. And now I now I'm building a new AI company. That's awesome. That's awesome. So now that AI company is in around similar or completely totally different? Totally different. Totally different. Totally different. Okay. But the idea came from that road. Coffee. Yeah. It's all about client. It's called Latch AI and it's all about client retention and helping founders and businesses keep their clients longer. It's. It's kind of like having a CS team in your back pocket without the overhead. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. But that. That's really cool. Yeah. Who doesn't love coffee, by the way, right? I'd have maybe like three or four a day. Only minimum. Only minimum. But that's. Yeah, that's really. That's really cool. And like now, like, going. Going back to that before we, you know, touch base on the whole AI stuff, because that's all. Obviously the cool stuff that's happening right now. So now what is it, like, decisions and all that changed everything and the one that scared you the most at the. I mean, the initial decision to start the company felt pretty scary at the time. I had a wild interaction, literally, when I went to start my company, I moved home. I was still doing some nonprofit work, and I got a job locally at a cafe because I wanted to brush up on some coffee skills. Because I thought, hey, if I'm gonna own a coffee roasting company, I should probably also learn how to barista or something like that. Yeah, barista. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was really honest about my intentions of starting a roasting company. Not. I never started a cafe. And the owner, like, recruited me to come on and really wanted me to work there. So I did. And right when I went to go start the actual company, I got some media attention and the owner ended up. It was the only time I ever got fired. The owner ended up firing me two days before Christmas. Just saying, literally, go fight for your own piece of pie. And I. Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. Devastated me. Yeah. You know, that. That's really unfortunate. Like, you know, and I think we all kind of go through some stages of that in our lives where, you know, when you think you really know someone until, like, when crap hits the fan, I guess you could say, in a way. And you don't know how others are thinking or what, you know, reading their mind, but like, to pull that off, like, now you see the true colors. Right? But yeah, you know, always try to look at it as the bright side, and that's what I always try to do. As much as it sucks in the moment. Right. It's always easier said than done when you're not in it. But it's like, that's what makes you even stronger now. Right. Like, from that moment and to get to where you are today. And that's what just keeps. Keeps building your character, your personality. Right, yeah, absolutely. Stop you. Right, Exactly. Yeah. It didn't stop you. No, no. It made it scarier to start, but then now I look back and it's. It's laughable. Yeah, no, for sure. And, like, during that time when all that was happening, like, did you feel that you had the right support around you? And by that, I mean, like, people around your environment, family, friends. Yay. Nay. I had some really amazing friends around me. Things were still a bit rocky with my family at that time, so I didn't have a ton of family support. We're in a lot better place now. And now my dad is one of my biggest fans, but at the time, we weren't even really talking to each other, and so it was really hard. It really felt like I was building alone. But luckily, the business community in the city I'm in is pretty awesome. And I feel like the community around me and my friends really rallied around me to support me. Yeah. And which city are you in, by the way? I am in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. So that's like central Canada for the listeners out there. Yeah. Yeah. Cool, cool. I'm in Toronto. Well, just north of so. So I love Toronto. Yeah, I. Yeah, I love Toronto, too, but it's changed a lot. I've been born and raised here, but it's. It's changed a lot. Like the rest of the world, it just keeps changing constantly, but. Cool. Yeah. Like, you know, there's a lot of things that I feel that that's. And now, like, you know, sharing that story, we all hit that kind of roadblock at one point in our lives, or even several, where it's. Yeah, it's. The hardest thing is when it's family. Right. Especially when they don't understand really, what you're going through in those moments. Right. And you feel like those are the times that you need them the most. But no matter how much you're going to explain to them whatever you're going through, especially in an entrepreneurship, they will never understand it, no matter how much you can explain it, until they see it in their own eyes at their time. Right. And at their pace. Yeah, and that's. That's totally true. I think it, like, it wasn't until I started seeing some success that some of My family kind of came around and was like, oh, wow, like, yeah, you're doing really good. Yeah. Like so do you ever hear that whole thing where it says, like those that, let's say during your journey of the challenges of starting what you're doing. Right. Whatever it is that the people that say that, oh, don't work so hard, you're, you know, you're going to burn yourself out. Like, they kind of, they don't, they, they mean the best, but don't realize that they're kind of holding you back, even though it doesn't stop you from doing what you're going to do. And then when you hit that success of what you're doing, they're the ones that say, you're so lucky. When I heard this, I was like, so true. And I'm pretty sure you can relate to that. Right. And I think we all can. Right? Yeah, I could relate to that. He said, what luck. Do you see what I've been doing behind the scenes? Right. I've been having a lot of these conversations lately and it's about how, you know, social media, we have all this amazing way of sharing to the world who we are, but everyone only sees the success that you share. Yeah. They don't see everything that goes. They don't see what goes behind closed doors. They don't see the time lost and all that stuff. Right. Have you ever heard the, the 10 year overnight success? 10 year overnight success? I can't say that I have overnight success, but it's a 10 year. No. Yeah, that's absolutely the case. 100%. And then now like in terms of the air you mentioned, so this is something that, Is it something you're taking on, on, on your own? Are you working with someone or is. Tell me. I am. Yeah, I'm working with a partner. He's pretty fun. It's pretty crazy. It's awesome. He's had multiple exits in tech and so it's been absolutely incredible learning from people that are way ahead of you and can help you get there faster. Right. So that's been pretty fun. Yeah. Awesome. And I think that's like with the elites in general, like being a part of that community. It's something that you said it helps you excel even further. Right. It's almost like you know where you want to be, whether it's 10 years or whatnot. But it's just how you're able to get yourself there even faster with the right shared knowledge and the right networking. Absolutely. I think like one of the coolest things I've learned from that elite community and through the coaching. There is the sequencing, how you can do the right things, but if they're not in the right order, it's going to take you longer and you're going to stumble along the way. But if you sequence them properly, you can grow a lot quicker. Yeah, no, for sure. It's just. Yeah, it's like when. When Dan says, here you go, just. You just have to do it 1, 2, 3. And if you don't do it in that order, then what can I tell you? Right. That's pretty much what he's saying. Yeah, it's true. Right. And then now. So what is it in the moment that you feel or did you ever feel that was a time that you ever wanted to quit or, you know, and what stopped you? Yeah, like, oh, I've had so many. I've had so many of those days, Matthew. But I. I've had a. I've had a couple that really stand out to me. I'll share about a more recent one, actually, but I'll share this first. One thing one of my old business coaches used to tell me on the hard days is you're always allowed to walk away. And I think he would say that to me because he knows I don't have give up in my vocabulary, but he'd always put it out there as an option. When I'm like, I'm frustrated or I can't get past this challenge or I'm feeling overwhelmed, he'd be like, well, you're always allowed to walk away. I really like that. What are your other. What are your other options? Yeah, do this. What? I could do this, right? Yeah. But I had a really challenging situation a couple years ago where I ended up partnering with the wrong people. And I learned a lot about partnerships the hard way and didn't do my due diligence the way I should have. This is before I joined elite. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sequencing. Sequencing. Yes. Yeah. So I. I didn't ask a lot of the right questions and ended up going through a really painful experience of. Of working with people that maybe didn't have the best intentions or really have the same values. Yeah. The same or same goals or path that you have. Right. It's not aligned. Yeah. Right. And it ate up. It ate up a couple years. It was a really expensive experience as well. And it really broke me. Like, I was pretty down and. And, like, got really depressed and I got lost. And it wasn't until I was. I didn't realize how down and lost. I was. Till about a year ago, and I was actually out at an event in Kelowna, and I realized that. I think Dan said something about, like, people get depressed or people get, like, struggle in life when they've lost their vision. And I realized that was me. And I was like, I've lost my vision and, like, my. Why? Because I've been so caught up in dealing with all the stress of this situation, you know, and that was a big turning point for me to get back. Back to, like. Yes. That's amazing. And it's crazy. Like, you know, as much as in all of us, as a human nature, I should say, in our minds and our brains and how we think in our subconscious and everything. And it's. It's like, as much as we do know, we know where we want to be, what we want. And. And you're right. Like, there are times where we fall off the rails and we completely forget that, and then that kind of just turns everything off, and then. Yeah, you feel lost. And all it takes is just that one outsider of a person to just say just the right words. That flips that switch back on, which is crazy. Right? It's in and it's cool. And. And that's where I find that it's 100% when you're surrounding yourself with the right people, they help one another, uplift one another. Right. We all uplift each other in a way. Because you just want to succeed, right? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. The wild part is as I, like, started sharing with my friends and people in the business community about where I was actually at when. When that was going on, because I didn't say something for a long time. And part of that was around, like, just, like, fear of judgment and, like, shame of, like, how did I even get myself in this situation? Yeah. I realized that, like, so many other business owners go through hard things and don't talk about it because they either don't know how or they just, like, they don't know what to do with it. And it's an interesting thing. Yeah, right. You just bottle up to the point that there's a breaking point. Right. Just like anything else. Right. Yeah. And. And. And that's. And you're totally right about that. And I feel like, you know, I'm not. I'm not perfect either, but I. I do at times go through those challenges, but then I try to vent it out to those that are in the similar position or may have experienced something similar, that when they share their experience, then you feel. And Reassure yourself that you're not alone and you're not the only one. And then you feel like, okay, so that. That means you're good. I'll be good in a way. Right, Right. So it's. And that's how you support one another, right? Yeah, absolutely. And it's cool. It's like, you don't have to be doing the same type of career profession or whatnot, and to go through similar experiences, but just in a different way. And that's one of the biggest things that I really enjoy and love about this whole podcasting. Right. It's like, I'm getting to meet amazing people, and vice versa, I hope. Vice versa, I hope. Right. So. And it's just sharing the amazing experiences and just to get to know more and more people out in this beautiful world. Right. I think it's awesome. And it's such a great way to not just build community, but, like, connect and hear other people's stories. 100%. Right? Absolutely. And now, like, what would you say, like, in terms of advice for someone that, you know, that has gone through what we've gone through, you know, working the 9 to 5 and whatnot, had that in, like, that vision in their mind to do something, but not sure what to start or how to start or when they're starting from scratch? What are your thoughts and advice on that? Two big things. One is whatever your idea is. What's the cupcake version? I think a lot of times, you know, I know. Cupcake version. I actually really like that. Yes. A lot of people just want to jump and build a cake right away, and they don't. And that might not be the right business idea. And so they get stuck or they spend a lot of money and they get lost, or it's just way too intimidating to bake the whole cake. So what is the smallest version? The cupcake. Yeah. To get you started. So that's my first one, and then my second one is just do it. Like, you just gotta do it. Yes. Yeah. You know, go, Nike, go N. Right. Just do it. And that's cool. Like, you know, I like that analogy with the cupcake. I love when you're able to relate to, like, real life things, and then that's where it makes it easier to understand. Right. Because it's really some things that can be challenging with the world that we live in now in terms of multiculturalism. And you got different languages, and then you got. Even though as much as people speak, let's say, English, French, whatever, as a secondary language, but then their first language could be whatever. It's Chinese, Arabic or whatnot. And they have so many different languages running through their mind, and the interpretation of what's being spoken could come off very different to the other receiving end. Right? Yeah, yeah. Right. So then it's like things could come out where they don't mean it in a certain way, but in their mind. This is the word wording that they may know, but it comes out not the way they want it to be interpreted. Right. So it's kind of cool where you take analogies now and you take real things to make sense of it. It makes it so much easier to understand it. Right. And as simple as that. And I like that cupcake idea. I'm going to use that. Honestly. You didn't pat in that one right now. Okay. Cupcake framework. Cupcake framework. No, that's cool. Cupcake framework. I like that. And yeah, 100% in terms of the. Just do it all day long. Right. I'm a big believer on that for anything. Like every. Like, for myself. I feel that I've always took that opportunity when it presented itself because I would tell myself that if I don't try, I would never know, even if I don't like it. But you don't know if you like it, you don't like it, you gotta do it. That's true. Have you ever been skydiving? No, have you? I've done it. Yeah. I did it once. I did it on Victoria island in Nanaimo. It was really, really cool experience. I actually do suggest it. It's something I'd always wanted to do. And I went a couple years ago, and this was an interesting thing, like, interesting experience for me. So going up in the plane, I was super calm. I wasn't scared at all. I was just like, cool, let's do this. Then we get, you know, to 10,000, whatever. Yeah, yeah. And the rules are, because you're attached to someone. I haven't trained in it. Right. So I'm attached to this person. And the rules are it's my job to step out of the plane. Then, like, they kind of do the rest and make sure, like, we pull the shoot together and stuff. Like. But it's my job to step out of the plane because it's like, you have to choose to. They're not going to force you to jump out of a plane, right? Yeah. And all of a sudden I remember, like, my stomach was in my throat and my fear just, like, shot up. And I was like, what the hell am I doing? Yeah. And Then I took that step and. And it's like everything is moving so fast. Like, you're moving through the sky so fast and. But it's incredible. Your adrenaline starts pumping, and then all of a sudden the chute pulls. Like, it all happens so fast. You know, it's only 30 seconds, I think of, like, dropping. Yeah. But it feels like forever. And then it's so peaceful the rest of the way down because you're just floating and you get to see this incredible view. And where I was, there was, like, all these islands right around Victoria. And that's cool. But what stood out to me is that you have to take the first step. Yeah. Everything else will work itself out, but it's our responsibility to always take that first step and anything that we want to pursue. For sure. I agree absolutely on that one. But the skydiving, I don't think I could do it. I'm just. I'm just saying. Because I don't like heights. I'm not a fan of heights. Like, my. My biggest fear is heights. Like, I've gone on roller coasters. Still not a fan of it. Not a fan at all. My wife would definitely go skydiving me. Oh, no. I can't do it. Can't do it. But the exercise behind it, I love it. It's good because I totally get what you're saying. Good for you. I'm glad you did it. Me too. Come back down in the plane. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I actually had this whole, like, when you were seeing skydiving. So I had this envision that like. So I've been married now for 12 years. And that's. That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Not easy. We got three kids. Life is busy. Entrepreneur, all. Yeah, it's hectic. But the whole nine yards. I think it's nine. So I had this vision that whenever I would propose to whoever I would meet, that I would skydive to the point, like, for proposal. And then when it came to that point, like, of wanting to propose, I'm like that. Like, I'll just figure something else out, you know? But that was actually my envision. I think it's the concept behind it and the idea that's what counts. I mean, it would have been cool in theory. It would have been. Right. Just like, somehow just stand here on the X. You know, Give me about half an hour. An hour. I'll see you. Just. Just chill. Just to hang out here. Just hang out here. Patch of grass. Right. So. But that. That's the only as far As I thought of going skydiving was that. And that would have happened 13, 12, 13 years ago. So. Right. You're building a business, which I feel like is way more crazy. Oh, yeah, 100%. All right. So, Alicia, now tell me, like, what do you think now when you. When you think of the name that I came up with here, Built without Permission, what is it for you that resonates really well? You're gonna laugh, but I feel like someone recently told me that is, like, stop waiting for permission. So building. Building the second company, it's been interesting because I'm going through the whole startup phase, like I did, but that company's 11 years old now, so starting again from zero has been challenging and scary and exciting. And exciting. That's right. And this time, I have a business partner. So my first company, I didn't. So I'm not used to making decisions that affect, like, anyone else other than me. Like, yes, my team and stuff, but not as, like, like an investor or something like that. So I think, like, I was really timid at first and a little shy of, like, what if I. What if I make a mistake? What if I screw up? And what if I totally blow this opportunity? Yeah. And. And the feedback I got from them was just, like, just do it. Don't worry about making mistakes. Like, just try things. And if you make a mistake, then that means you're learning. If you make the same mistake multiple times, we might be like, hey, why does this keep happening, happening? But, like, you're not going to do that. Like, they were like, we know you. You're not going to make the same mistake multiple times. So just try things and count learning as growing, not mistakes. Yes. So I feel like I recently was told this, which is you. Like, I thought I maybe had graduated from this, but I'm. I'm relearning it again in this season. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. And that's definitely where, you know, we. We. We learn that it's from the failures or the, you know, mistakes that that's where as long as we don't make the same mistake and we learn from it, we better ourselves from it. We don't poke it, you know, for whoever makes these mistakes, it's just, how do we fix it? And let's move on. Making a decision. Not about the right or wrong decision, but making a decision. Yeah. Right. I think, too, like, what I've been learning over the years is the only thing that really holds us back in life is ourselves. Like, there's not a lot of people like who's telling us that we have to have permission to do anything, you know. But we, yeah, we get these mindsets and these blockers and tell ourselves these stories. Oh yeah, absolutely. And that's where I think like now and thanks for verifying earlier about that whole. Having an EA is like, you know, the emails not running your life pretty much. Because I'm like, do I get one? I go, I know I need one, period. Right. And the way dan says it, 100% ownership, give it away. 100% ownership calendar, give it away. Just give it away. Tell me what I need to do, where I need to be, handshakes, get kissing babies, all the above. Yeah, yeah. Skydiving and skydiving, absolutely. Yeah. Now like, and with the AI stuff we'll. We should definitely like connect about some AI stuff because I'm, I've actually been working on some things on my own and I'm really excited about it too. I think it will end up taking off pretty well. Currently mine is a, is an internal thing for my equipment rental business. So I built a whole software that my team's actually using right now. So I'm still, yeah, I'm still working through it. So it's like trial and error, but it's fully operational. That's awesome. What does it do? It helps me with organization of my equipment, my inventory, invoicing contracts, keeping track of fleet management, working on internal integrations of agents with also helping me reconcile stuff like QuickBooks that I don't have to use QuickBooks anymore. So I'm just like putting everything all into one and making it something that I don't have to depend on a third party software to run my business. Cool. Yeah, that sounds awesome, man. So I think that this is something that eventually will, once they lock it down really good, it's going to take off on the side. Cool. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. Using yourself as a test subject's the best thing. Before I started building Latch, I built it for road coffee first. Oh cool. See so that's where you know. Yep. Yeah. Awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. And then something for fun. What I did on the side was for more myself is build my own personal calendar. And then I don't know if you came across or saw my post on the Group Elite Group, but it was. I built my own Jarvis because I love Iron man. So I built my own Jarvis where. Yeah, but it's more of my personal use of taking notes and calendar like scheduling. So later to build him to teach like me more things. Be able to do research and stuff. So slow, fun process. That's fun. The iterative process of building with AI. Oh, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. A hundred percent. Well, Alicia, I do appreciate your time and everything. We should do this again because I would love to even have people back and get more time and just get to know each other more and more. Yeah, that'd be great. I got a lot of stories and I feel like every day with Latch is a new day and a new adventure. Fantastic. Well, thank you for joining me on Built Without Permission and we'll catch up soon at times. Bet. Thanks for having me. Take care, Alicia. Bye. If you're waiting for permission, you're already behind. The life you're building starts with the decisions you make today. So stop thinking and start moving. Subscribe, Share this with someone. Still thinking about it. And start building something of your own. No blueprint, no approval, no exception. Excuses. I'm Matthew Mac. This is Built Without Permission.